America's Best Expedition Value.

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 08/19/2014 at 13:44 • Filed to: TWBV, Truck Yeah

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Image being able to go where the silence truly is golden, where the views inspire and where the people you do meet are friendly and interesting. Now imagine you can bring along a fridge, and chairs and a table, and comfortable bed and you friends and family too. Now imagine you don't even have to break a sweat or don a backpack if you don't want because you're in a vehicle.

"Sign me up!" you say. And rightly so, but to start you will need a vehicle that's up for the adventure. "But where can I find such a vehicle in today's crossover and hybrid sports performance suv coupe cabrio nonsense market that can satiate my now unquenchable vehicular wanderlust?"

Well your in luck! To make your life easier, I've gathered a selection of vehicles, taken the necessary traits and mathed them up good to produce the best of the best. I did this all for you at great expense some expense a reckless use of time so you can get out and enjoy the 1-2 combo of cars and world.

Now I am going to say something right up front that will make several of you upset: there are no full size trucks, there are basically no "domestic" makes on this list aside from Jeep. The reason is three fold:

I don't have time to sort through the billions of permutations of available vehicles....okay I do but I don't want to

I picked vehicles that are traditionally well suited, and oft chosen, for the task and included a few wild cards for fun.

At a certain point a vehicle becomes too big to effectively serve as a touring vehicle, that point is about where most domestic trucks start.

What I did do is find 17 of the cars most likely to assume touring duty based on popularity, capability and reputation. That having been said, I would like to revisit this with more heavy duty vehicles (including expedition rigs) eventually, so I guess I will call this the 17 best medium to heavy touring vehicles...and here they are (in Alphabetical order):

Infiniti QX80

Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk

Jeep Grand Cherokee overland ED

Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland3.6

Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon

Land Rover LR2

Land Rover LR4 HSE

Lexus GX460

Lexus LX570

Mercedes-Benz G550

Mercedes-Benz G63

Nissan Frontier quad short bed Pro 4X

Nissan Xterra Pro 4X

Range Rover V8 SWB

Toyota 4Runner Trail

Toyota Land Cruiser

Toyota Tacoma quad short bed TRD

Over-landing, expedition travel, heavy touring whatever you call it, has different requirements that what you might consider for a traditional "4x4", and I ranked the vehicles based on these requirements in a quantitative fashion:

Load capacity - If touring in a vehicle means taking it all with you...or at least what you need with you...then you need the room for it. More than just "will it fit in there" your vehicle must have the necessary payload (GVWR - Curb weight) to be able to safely carry your gear. You would be surprised to find that with some vehicles, just putting 5 people and gas in it you are close to your max safe weight. You can get away with exceeding this max on the road (sometimes), but off road and on rough trails this becomes dangerous fast. The load score is a composite function of both how much volume you have for cargo and payload ratings.

Trail worthiness - We aren't talking about rock crawling or extreme wheeling here, however the better a vehicles trail score, the more likely you are to get to your destination without getting stuck or becoming exhausted. Even non-technical trails forest trails can turn into real challenges with unexpected weather. Points here are tallied by the availability of traction aids, suspensions flexibility, and angles relative to off road travel; Approach angle, departure angle, break over angle, ground clearance. All the vehicles on the list are fitted with advanced forms of brake based traction control and without a way to compare them they are treated as equal and from my experience they are for the most part. Also, vehicles with adjustable suspensions are being tallied at their most capable measurements. Purely numerical calculations for the Trail score.

Range (fuel economy on and off road) - In the US this is a big deal, in other countries you have to choose between the power of the gas engine and the range of the diesel...we just get the power but that does mean that how far you can travel without carrying fuel is much more a factor. Carrying extra fuel is often a necessary evil but its costly to do safely and reduces your payload, Vehicles with inherently good range have a major advantage. Calculated by averaging the City/Highway/off road (city-25%) ranges.

Reliability - I think it goes without saying that this is an important trait when you may be calling on your vehicle to get you back home. I tried my best to scour several different sources to determine what is considered reliable, and based some of this with historical data on models that are brand new or have little data. Its not perfect, but I tried to be fair. This is the first category to have SOME subjectivity.

Durability - This is different that reliability, this is how long you can expect to drive a heaven laden vehicle on rough tracks before it starts to loosen up, develop rattles and generally fall apart. Like reliability this is somewhat subjective, but I did factor in points for vehicles with construction that is generally considering more durable as well as some historical analysis.

Value - How much of the above can do you get for your money. Touring can be a rich mans game but it doesn't have to be, use your money wisely on your vehicle and put it into your adventures instead. This is scored by combining the above values and factoring in price.

I did my best to be objective and data driven as much as possible, again, is it perfect? no. Are there factors I've missed? Of course...but how is this different than any other comparison you've ever read? Feel free to write me a comment and tell me what I fool I was for omitting _________. Did I mention I tried to do this by the numbers and as fair as I could? good.

In the interest of space, I've left of the bottom 7 vehicles, but they are included at the bottom; So, starting at #10 we have.

#10 Lexus LX570 - If you didn't already know, the LX570 is a Toyota Land Cruiser made uglier and sillier; World traveling ability in a World Market package. The Toyota inside SCREAMS toughness that the Lexus outside doesn't want you to enjoy and as a consequence the LX, though based on excellent hardware, get neutered just enough drop it all the way to 10th.

MSRP as equipped: $83,550

Scores:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Pros: Lots of load space and a fair amount of payload. Durable as the day is long. KDSS allows for good wheel articulation and adjustable ride height means this Lexus will take you places the predator face actually looks at home.

Cons: Reliability marked down on account of the sheer volume of systems to go wrong, range with the thirsty 5.7 is poor and the lack of any mechanical traction aids as well as the ground scraping face mean its not going to enjoy heavy travel and the value is just not there.

Verdict: World exploring capability, in a World Market package.

#9 Toyota Land Cruiser - Much like the G63 compared to the G550, the Land Cruiser is still too bloated in its "standard" form to make much sense compared to the marginally more equipped and expensive Lexus version. There is less than $2600 difference between the two and it begs the question; why? That being said, with simple coil springs, and solid robust hardware the Cruiser is tough in ways that belie its soft exterior, KDSS is standard for excellent wheel articulation and build quality is second to none.

MSRP as equipped: 80,925

Scores:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Pros: You cannot buy a better built vehicle at any price, it will be durable and reliable all the days you own it, and then some. Can carry a heavy load without complaint. traction control, suspension articulation and heavy armor means you will keep moving, even if you are scrapping a lot.

Cons: No rear locker, 8.9 inches of ground clearance, long overhangs and a poor break over mean this rig isn't going to love the rough stuff. Poor range (even worse than the Lexus somehow) and poor value.

Verdict: A reliable, an adequate performer that's over optioned where it matters least.

#8 Grand Cherokee Overland EcoDiesel - First off, its got overland in the name, so it has to be good right? One of two grand Cherokee Overland's on this list, included because of the unique to America diesel engine. Well the big nod to that end is the range, unsurpassed in this gathering by a LONG shot; Able to go nearly 700 miles on a single tank! Aside from the that the newest Grand Cherokee is considered a true rival to the European blue-bloods in terms of refinement and capability, only at a fraction of the price.

MSRP as equipped: $52,300

Scores:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Pros: Amazing range. High tech off road tools. Decent value (that it ties in points with the vastly more expensive and highly regarded Land Cruiser says a lot here)

Cons: Mid range across load, trail score, reliability and durability.

Verdict: Jack of all trades, master of none.

#7 Range Rover V8 supercharged SWB (HD package) - Now we're getting to the classics. This Range rover, despite all its suburban stereotypes, does appear to be the real deal and worthy of the hype. It has the best payload, the 2nd best off road numbers and decent range. What hurts the Rangie most in this comparison is its starting price of over $102,000 as equipped. This is a "best for the money thing" so that price is going to sting no matter how great it is. That it did so well despite the price is a feat in and of itself.

MSRP as equipped: $102,325

Scores:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Pros: Phenomenal trail performance for its category. The most payload by far (1800 lbs). A surprisingly good range thanks to its relative weight and large fuel tank.

Cons: Like the Land Cruiser, the Land/Range rovers have earned reputation for reliability, only in a bad way. Durability is also concerning.

Verdict: Over-landing for the sponsored traveler on new money types.

#6 Land Rover LR4 HSE HD - It's funny how the families values show through. The VASTLY less expensive LR4 is traditionally the land rover you buy for adventure, and for good reason; Good off-road, can carry a heavy load, more durable with its body on frame construction than its upscale Brother. This is the Lean Land Rover experience (at least in America)

MSRP as equipped: $56,875

Scores:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Pros: Rear locker with decent angles and clearance. Adjustable suspension and decent articulation for fully independent. Great for carrying a heavy load year after year. Kind of a value if you consider the Range Rover.

Cons: Range is only so/so. Land Rover and Air suspension. Land Rover reliability.

Verdict: I've always wanted to try my hand at this exploring thing...put it on my AMEX.

#5 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 3.6 - Everything I said for the EcoDiesel, minus the crazy range. The beauty of the 3.6 is because its so much lighter it gets a better payload rating AND is significantly cheaper to buy. All the same off road goodies apply

MSRP as equipped: $47,100

Scores:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Pros: Decent on the trail. Can carry a decent load. Has a one of the bast gasoline ranges available. Better value than the EcoDiesel.

Cons: nothing WRONG per-se, but no standout in any one category. Durability could be an issue owning to the construction type. Reliability hasn't been a strong point of this generation, though its not necessarily bad.

Verdict: A good multi-tool, inexpensive and indispensable yet not the best at any one its jobs.

#4 Nissan Frontier Pro 4X - The frontier is a tried and true, solid as a rock contender for the overland traveler looking to keep his gear outside of where the passengers sit. A locking rear diff, HD suspension and decent armor means its ready to go touring right out of the box. If you need to carry people AND gear, a truck is a great weapon, though make sure you check your payload, the Frontier is a heavy truck for its GVWR.

MSRP as equipped: $32,950

Scores:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Pros: Good construction. A dated..uh...proven design mean its in it for the long run and wont leave you stranded. Very good value. All the Off-road goodies you need to get there.

Cons: Poor payload; its not enough to have SPACE to carry it all, you have to be able to take the weight and the heavy Frontier is low in that regard. A thirsty but powerful V6 limits your range.

Verdict: Built like a tank, in both a good and bad way.

#3 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon - The Legend. This vehicle deserves a spot on any 4x4 list by virtue of the fact that it may be the most capable off-road vehicle you can buy off the lot today and its a relative bargain in the process. However, over-landing is less about rock crawling and trail work and more about the occasional tough spot while traveling heavy and in making the Rubicon as good as it is off road, Jeep have sacrificed those needs.

MSRP as equipped: $37,785

Scores:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Pros: The most trail capable vehicle on the list. Full locker package (shared only with the g-wagons) and all the hardware and armor an over-lander would need. A great value.

Cons: Poor interior volume. Poor Payload. Only average reliability and durability (a consequence of its mission coupled with its value)

Verdict: If you need to travel the more technical trails and can afford to travel a little lighter, there's only one.

!!! UNKNOWN HEADER TYPE (MULTI-LINE BREAK?) !!!

MSRP: $33,525

Scores:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Pros: More payload than the heavier Frontier. As reliable as the sunrise. A great value.

Cons: Not as equipped to tackle the tougher trails, despite a locking rear diff and HD suspension, as others on this list. Only a moderate range. Poor angles.

Verdict: still the standard bearer for light trucks, wrinkles and all.

#1 Toyota 4Runner Trail - As a Land Cruiser man, I was startled to see the 4Runner on the top of this list. All the same here it is, the Toyota 4Runner Trail: The best over-land value in America. Originally a 4Runner was just a Toyota truck with more seats, now though the 4Runner is built on the bones of the insanely tough and capable Land Cruiser Prado J150 platform (shared with the Lexus Gx460 and proceeded by the now defunct FJ cruiser and its J120 platform) only with better angles, a locker and more clearance. Its full strength and ready for action and paired with an updated and more powerful version of the dependable V6 found in the Tacoma.

MSRP as equipped: $36,700

Scores:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Pros: Strong off-road performance courtesy of a rear locker, Land Cruiser derived KDSS suspension, good clearance and great angles for a heavy touring vehicle. Better than average interior volume AND payload. Tried and true components and assembly mean you can venture deep with confidence. Surprisingly good range thanks to a large fuel tank.

Cons: In terms of the numbers, the durability compared to the leaders in this group is down, but that's about it. Okay, I don't like the new grill either.

Verdict: For carrying a large, heavy load over rough terrain, year after year you simply cannot get more bang for your buck than the 4Runner trail.

Vehicles 17-11 are as follows.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

These 7 didn't make the cut based on value, capability, or range...sometimes all of the above. Granted I expected some to fall on their face [Land Rover LR2/G63 AMG] but some were a genuine surprise [Cherokee Trailhawk/G550].

So what do you say? What did I get wrong, what did I get right? what do YOU think is the best, off the lot vehicle for exploring the world?

Complete scoring matrix

This is The World By Vehicle or , in summary , my rambling stories about seeing neat things by car or how to do the same.

Milky > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2014 at 13:50

10

Aaaaannnddd if you want to modify, the Jeep is back at the number 1 spot. Where it belongs.

http://project-jk.com/gallery2/main.…

http://www.kingshocks.com/wp-content/upl…

http://cdn3.volusion.com/vcnso.rsnye/v/…

IPFreely > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2014 at 13:51

2

As a fan of the 4 Runner I am pleased to see you come to the proper conclusion on this.

HammerheadFistpunch > IPFreely 08/19/2014 at 13:53

3

I was genuinely surprised by the conclusion, but there is it.

EL_ULY > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2014 at 13:56

0

further confirms my WANT for a 4Runner but I'm not a millionaire, even for an 2011. I saw some 2011's ans 2012's today with 50-70K miles on the ticker for +/- $30k on dealer used car lots. Whaaaat?

Still want. Dark grey with black TRD wheels and BFG All terrains nooow!

Awesome write up sir!!!

Marioshi > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2014 at 14:01

1

Not sure how the Xterra scored so much lower than the Frontier it is based on. It seems like it would have similar scores.

HammerheadFistpunch > Milky 08/19/2014 at 14:05

8

I left modifications alone, Any of these vehicles takes to modifications pretty well, but each add on decreases payload and value. It was a conscious decision to leave out modding to highlight a base vehicles traits. Spend the same on a cruiser or tacoma and its #1 too.

HammerheadFistpunch > Marioshi 08/19/2014 at 14:07

0

Payload, the Xterra has a pitiful payload of 870 lbs. basically once you've put fuel and people in it, your done. Also, its too small and has poor reliability based on the research I've found.

FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2014 at 14:09

0

If I were to do it all over again I'd seriously consider going with full size American Iron. Much cheaper to modify and can be built every bit as capable. I could deal with the size issue, with a chain saw.

HammerheadFistpunch > EL_ULY 08/19/2014 at 14:10

1

The 4runner trail or even TRD pro is a pretty compelling buy. Even though they are pricey you sure get a lot for the money. Its basically a land cruiser 80 but with hp and MPG added in.

HammerheadFistpunch > FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 08/19/2014 at 14:11

1

I hear you, a nice K2500 6.5 liter turbo diesel suburban would be a great overland beater...but man they are large.

EL_ULY > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2014 at 14:12

0

good way of putting it

Milky > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2014 at 14:15

3

You tell lies, IFS severely limits how high and therefore how much tire you can fit. #IKnowYouKnowThis

FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2014 at 14:16

0

Shouldn't bother you too much in Utah with all your wide open expanses! I suppose there are some tight rock chutes that might be troublesome.

Marioshi > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2014 at 14:21

0

I guess it is heavier but I have my doubts that its any less reliable/durable than the frontier... Not calling you out or anything, but seeing how the Tacoma/4runner scored 263 points from each other, its hard for me to believe the Frontier/Xterra should be 638 points apart.

HammerheadFistpunch > Milky 08/19/2014 at 14:27

8

you're are partially right, but a touring vehicle rarely needs more than a 33 anyway

HammerheadFistpunch > Marioshi 08/19/2014 at 14:34

1

just to clear thing up, the 4runner and Tacoma aren't related by platform. the 4runner actually has better payload than the taco

Milky > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2014 at 14:45

5

You're not doing the right of kind of touring then.

(I might be a biased fanboy trying to push my opinions on others)

DipodomysDeserti > EL_ULY 08/19/2014 at 14:57

0

I was looking at CPO's and they hold their value like a motherfucker. I couldn't believe it either. I ended up doing a 180 an getting a decked out 3 series with less miles for about $10k less than I could find a CPO 4Runner for.

HammerheadFistpunch > Milky 08/19/2014 at 15:19

7

Wheeling =/= touring. Check out any number of Austrialian youtube videos and get an idea of what you can do with 33's and what heavy touring is all about. Gallboys, all4adventure, misadventure. all good channels. I respect the wrangler immensely, but its not the best vehicle for the job, especially if your not in extreme terrain with any regularity.

Marioshi > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2014 at 15:23

1

Exactly my point. The Xterra and frontier should be a lot close point-wise since they are mechanically near twins. Also, the Rubicon gets 2 (against the Xterra's 1) for load despite only holding an extra 22 lbs. Again, its your ranking system but I am not following how the Xterra fell so far back in the pack.

HammerheadFistpunch > Marioshi 08/19/2014 at 15:32

0

The Rubicon gets a better score because it can carry slightly more weight and has slightly more internal volume. To be fair, it was the threshold between 1 and 2 still 870 lbs is, frankly, pathetic. (according to this source , its less than a rav4 or forester.) Both Nissan's would have scored much higher but they weigh a great deal more than their competitors without offering increased GVW max and as a result both tough trucks are actually pretty weak in terms of payload. As far as reliability I went with several sites and averaged them, I actually had it pegged higher before I started looking around to see what the reports were. I'm not sure what the difference is between the two, but apparently there is one.

Marioshi > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2014 at 15:34

0

Fair enough, from what I have read, the Xterra is pretty reliable and durable especially compared to something like a land rover. BTW I think expedition is misspelled in your title.

HammerheadFistpunch > FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 08/19/2014 at 15:43

2

well you say that.... but

FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2014 at 15:47

0

link fail. They really need to fix this picture thing.

HammerheadFistpunch > FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 08/19/2014 at 15:50

0

just refreshed the link, try again.

FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2014 at 15:53

0

Haha that's a doozy and one hell of a loaded/kitted up econoline van.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2014 at 15:57

0

4Runner master life. Of the shittiest generation.

HammerheadFistpunch > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 08/19/2014 at 15:58

1

I thought you would be pleased with the results.

HammerheadFistpunch > FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 08/19/2014 at 16:01

1

Its " the squeeze " on the Elephant hill trail in canyonlands. On my list.

Milky > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2014 at 16:02

0

A week long vacation off roading sounds like touring to me!

HammerheadFistpunch > Milky 08/19/2014 at 16:12

5

no question it looks like fun, but if its not going from A to B its just a bunch of wheeling in sequence. Yes, they travel off road to get to the wheeling points but look at the trails in between, a 33 is MORE than capable, plus I imagine a lot of those rigs were a bear to be in for 300 miles. Again, Love wheeling, love the wrangler. but wheeling and touring are two very different things.

EL_ULY > DipodomysDeserti 08/19/2014 at 16:27

0

Dang really? lol. Damn, i thought maybe it was just these wacko dealers here but I guess it is throughout. Maybe people are actually buying them at that price. no point dropping it.

Milky > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2014 at 16:40

3

I think you're taking me more seriously than I take myself.

HammerheadFistpunch > Milky 08/19/2014 at 16:41

3

I do that.

HammerheadFistpunch > DipodomysDeserti 08/19/2014 at 18:42

0

I guess it says something to the durability factor, its the same with tacoma's

HammerheadFistpunch > Marioshi 08/19/2014 at 18:43

0

Thanks for the correction. FYI I have no reservations marking down the durability of the xterra, I've been in several low mile examples that rattled 3x as much as my ~250,000 mile cruiser.

DipodomysDeserti > EL_ULY 08/19/2014 at 19:22

0

That's my guess. The cheap interiors look really cheap too. The FJ's are much more reasonably priced.

DipodomysDeserti > HammerheadFistpunch 08/19/2014 at 19:24

0

Yeah, Toyota's seem to have really good resale value. Same with Subaru. I traded in my Subaru for more than I bought my CPO 3 series for with the same miles.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch 08/20/2014 at 21:49

1

This is awesome - thanks for all your work on it.

Devon lost his burner, understands electric cars don't require front grilles > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 14:11

0

I love some me some good stock articulation

HammerheadFistpunch > Devon lost his burner, understands electric cars don't require front grilles 08/27/2014 at 14:18

3

damn strait.

Vic-in-Norway > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 14:19

0

Had no idea the 4Runners had become so fat and ugly... I guess age does that to the best of us though.

HammerheadFistpunch > Vic-in-Norway 08/27/2014 at 14:21

1

sigh, I know it has for me...except the ugly part, i was never pretty.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 14:36

0

I'm curious why you went with the 4 door Wrangler as opposed to the 2 door Wrangler.

Although it must be said that I'd gladly take a diesel Grand Cherokee over the Wrangler. Even if the Grand Cherokee doesn't go absolutely everywhere the Wrangler does.

And I do think the 4Runner is well deserving of the top spot.

Ballzonya > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 14:37

1

I'm Surprised the Xterra didn't crack the top 10 and the Frontier did...aren't they pretty much the same vehicle?

HammerheadFistpunch > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 08/27/2014 at 14:38

0

the 4 door is the more sensible overlanding choice, more room for stuff and hardly diminished capability. I think Im with you on the GC, for the torques!

HammerheadFistpunch > Ballzonya 08/27/2014 at 14:42

1

Check out the scores, the Xterra has a miserable 870 payload. fill it will gas and plop an 180 lb driver in there and you are looking at only 560 lbs of payload....thats not a lot of stuff. PLus for some reason it was rated lower in reliability than the frontier.

55_mercury > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 14:45

0

The only vehicle on here I'd consider for offroading purposes would be the Jeep Rubicon even though its pretty pricey. Let's be real here: NONE of these will likely ever see real offroading action, at least not until they've been thoroughly beat after 15 years of back and forth freeway commuting, taking the kids to soccer practice, getting groceries and other stuff. Some of these are simply too fluffy and luxurious to be real contenders.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 14:45

1

I'm really glad the 4Runner took the top spot because I really like that truck.

Paullubbock > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 14:48

1

No Ford Raptor? This review didn't happen.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 14:48

1

I could easily make the counter point of "If one is going overland, one brings multiple vehicles and at most a co-driver."

Also, Toyota is allegedly doing a 4Runner TRD Pro for 2015. If one is going to want an enclosed vehicle for overlanding, and the 4Runner is already at the top of the list...

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-t…

HammerheadFistpunch > 55_mercury 08/27/2014 at 14:48

0

Thats the age old stereotype right? but it doesn't haven't to be, if someone wants to take there 102 grand rangie off road and beat it up right off the lot, more power to him/her. The truth is that a great many people in the overland community have money to spend and prefer the safety and comfort of a brand new vehicle. It may not be the thick of the bell curve, but there are definitely people who will buy these and use them.

HammerheadFistpunch > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 08/27/2014 at 14:51

0

The trouble with the TRD pro is the value is lousy, you can buy 100% of the parts that make it special on from TRD and come out sixes on price in which case why not buy go the aftermarket route and get better stuff cheaper? Granted the TRD suspension is well tuned for the truck and, although pretty pricey, possibly worth the cost from TRD.

CAR_IS_MI > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 14:53

2

I am quite okay with coming in at #3. Sure, a few beigmobiles cut me off, but hey, my roof comes off and so do my doors and thats totally worth two spots.

TN Dumpster Opossum > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 14:54

0

FZJ-80 is always the answer.

HammerheadFistpunch > CAR_IS_MI 08/27/2014 at 14:55

3

it blows my mind how poor the payload is on the wrangler, otherwise it would be much higher. it also blows my mind how big it is, for the tiny interior volume.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 14:55

0

I'm not disagreeing that the value is lousy, but elsewhere in the comments, you specifically stated you weren't going to look at capability after 3rd party mods.

Since Toyota is planning on selling this as a separate trim line, I'd consider it as a factory model.

Because if you spend enough money on anything listed, it will be more capable than a bone stock 4Runner. Even a Nissan Patrol or an F-150.

DPillar > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 14:55

0

Any points if a manual transmission is offered? Always a consideration for my touring vehicles, to push start if need be. Puts the Xterra and Frontier to the top of my list.

HammerheadFistpunch > TN Dumpster Opossum 08/27/2014 at 14:56

0

its worked for me.

HammerheadFistpunch > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 08/27/2014 at 14:57

0

True but the increased capability is minor for the cost, the TRD pro would have actually faired worse in my metric than the trail edition.

HammerheadFistpunch > DPillar 08/27/2014 at 14:58

0

Great points. on the other hand manuals are often handicapped if you are traveling in a lot of water or if you do a lot of sand driving. For the fun factor, they matter, but I didn't award any points here.

6shelBfan6 > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 14:59

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You put the LC at the number 10 spot? Below the Grand Cherokeee? Hahahahahahahaha that's funny

imprezanoturbo > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 14:59

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I just bought a '14 Tacoma TRD. Tacomas haven't been updated in 10 years but it's still a hell of a truck. I bought it for its smaller size (better for tight back roads) and the rear locker. It doesn't have any fancy gizmos I don't need but has all the overlanding prowess I want. Plus I could get it with a stick shift. But perhaps more than anything, I bought it for the Toyota pickup reliability. Nissan may be as reliable but a Toyota pickup defines rugged reliability.

HammerheadFistpunch > 6shelBfan6 08/27/2014 at 15:02

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#9 actually. Trouble is the 200 series is 80 large and loaded with crap, if we could get the VX model, things would be different.

thebullfrog > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:02

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Question!: Since you didn't go into detail. How did the Xterra score so much lower than the Frontier, when they are mechanically the same thing? It seems to me I'd much rather have the Xterra for an expedition due to better cargo capacity and a place to sleep built right in, I don't see how stripping that utility for a tiny-ass cargo bed shoots the Frontier over 10 spots higher, given the mechanicals should be a tie?

HammerheadFistpunch > imprezanoturbo 08/27/2014 at 15:03

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The picture in the list is my buddies personal tacoma we took wheeling last year, its been great for him. we are headed out of town this weekend with the kiddos to do another round.

55_mercury > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:03

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Not sure its a stereotype but rather more about realistic statistics. Its more or less the same as how that a huge chunk of the full size truck buyers seldom use them for actual truk-like activities and instead are happy to use them as the equivalent of a minivan. I'm sure you are right that surely there are some people out there who buy 100k SUVs and then trash em' on the trail. But the truth of the matter is that the lion's share of luxo SUV buyers are more like the ones I see on a daily basis streaming out of the hoity-toity neighborhoods dropping off the kids to school in the morning.

MEESTALUBBA > 55_mercury 08/27/2014 at 15:04

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yes call this a list of the top 10 pavement babies that people used to take off-road years ago.

WhiskeyGolf > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:04

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No love for the FJ? Did you just not calculate the score or was there something that kept it from the list?

HammerheadFistpunch > 55_mercury 08/27/2014 at 15:04

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Stereotypes exist for a reason. You are of course correct in your assumption.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:06

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The sad part is that they will charge just over $45K for those things (i.e. above the Mall Cruiser 4Runner Limited), and sell every blasted one.

My thinking is still going to be on a Range Rover Classic, with the appropriate modifications to make it...umm....drivable. (Air Suspension replaced with coils, excoriate the Lucas electrics, etc etc), plus I won't cry when it gets pinstripes and creases (It's an old Range Rover, it's guaranteed to look like crap already).

But for new, the 4Runner Trail is very good value.

CAR_IS_MI > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:06

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Yea I'm working stuff out for my big trip and trying to figure out weight and space are my two biggest issues. I'm doing pretty good so far, front bumper with winch is only about 80lbs total, and the rear bumper, tire carrier, jerry can mounts, and basket are looking to be weighing in just under 200 lbs with the spare mounted and two full cans. The roof rack is about 80 and the roof top tent is another 120 which leaves me about 600 lbs of room... minus me and the dog and I've got 400 lbs for "stuff" (granted, I've upgraded suspension components for this specific purpose so I have some wiggle room there, but how much is the real question.

As per the space, yea... the back seat allows for generous leg room (considering its a small suv, the back seat has about as much leg room as my fathers Expedition). Combine that with the fact that the load space is set high to allow for more clearance on the muffler (allowing for a greater departure angle, you'll bump your spare before you bump your muffler), and you've got yourself a tiny cargo area (but at least its 1000X bigger than that of the 2 door).

MEESTALUBBA > Paullubbock 08/27/2014 at 15:06

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yeah if you can include the nissan and toyota 4-door trucks, then why not a real truck? all the others are glorified grocery-getter SUV's.

HammerheadFistpunch > thebullfrog 08/27/2014 at 15:06

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Check out the numbers; the thing that killed it was the payload. Technically speaking, if you and 4 buddies who all weighed 180 lbs got into one with a full tank of gas you'd be 157 lbs over the GVWR.

HammerheadFistpunch > WhiskeyGolf 08/27/2014 at 15:07

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Dead truck walking. I thought about including it, but since its discontinued for 2015 I didn't.

HammerheadFistpunch > CAR_IS_MI 08/27/2014 at 15:09

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Its certainly the vehicle of choice if your trails are going to be more rugged or crazy, but its a shame about the GVWR, I guess its a function of the non-floating axles or something.

sflash868 > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:10

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I think one think you're really really missing here is availability of customization and aftermarket support. Also, touring is also the wrong way to think of this. Old men on Honda Goldwings go touring. People with packed trucks hitting the mud over long distance go "Overlanding"

For a vehicle to fit this need there is often a lot if simple modifications that are done and/or desired by the owner. Not like the Jeeps of the world where we're doing suspensions, bumpers, gears, axles, lights, rims, armor etc but stuff that allows your mall crawler to get a little more aggressive with little effort. Land Rover doesn't do a lot well but it does this well.. you can walk off the showroom with a range rover/LR4 equipped with Sat Nav, a winch, light duty armor, full length roof rack, lights, all the needed equipment, more aggressive tires all as factory options with warranty. Wrangler aside, I don't believe anything on your list has that. So if we then turn to the aftermarket.. bolt on stuff like winch trays, racks, fuel carriers, spare tire carrier, interior storage solutions etc. Land Rover and Toyota (especially Tacoma), Jeep obviously, really excel here and should be considered in their ranking.

For those reasons, I would knock this list down to about 4 trucks. New cars aside. The Defender 130 Hi-cap TDI would always be my choice.

CAR_IS_MI > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:11

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Short(ish) wheelbase as well.

6shelBfan6 > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:12

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I can't count apparently. But....but you put it below a Fiat.

HammerheadFistpunch > CAR_IS_MI 08/27/2014 at 15:14

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its actually quite long, 4 inches longer than the land cruiser.

HammerheadFistpunch > sflash868 08/27/2014 at 15:18

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This option weighed on my mind alot when I wrote this. The trouble isn't a great way to define what truck takes best to the aftermarket and my scoring matrix was already getting more convoluted with each iteration. That having been said, I think the aftermarket has great support for most of the top 10 vehicles so it may be a moot point. The Toyota's have good support and the Wrangler support is unquestionably the best. Defender 110 would be a good addition...but not in the US. That having been said, I still wouldn't buy a defender, too agricultural for the touring I do. I would like my vehicles to seal out dust and rain at least a little.

bolio > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/27/2014 at 15:18

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I have an 08 4x4 tacoma with 150k trouble free miles, much of it on backroads and overland type camping trips to an isolated 80 mile stretch of beach in Texas. How come a Ford Raptor wasn't included? Is it because of the wide size and poor mpg? Other than that I think it would be tops.

Prophet of hoon > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:18

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you and I need to sit down and talk about your use of the word "need" - I really don't think it means what you think it means. And before start with the whole "we need air, water, food" that's wrong, and you know it. We need 35" tires minimum - because otherwise the water we ford, the air we pollute, and the mcdonalds we eat become nothing more than "would be nice'es"

AFSpecialSauce > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:19

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Obviously had to stop the list at some point, but I'd think the older LR3 would be a good contender. Much in common with the LR4 but at prices well below even used JK Wranglers. (although the 'used' part would probably reduce the reliability score further.)

HammerheadFistpunch > 6shelBfan6 08/27/2014 at 15:19

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No the Fiat scored 2nd to last. The GC is a joint venture between Chrysler and MB.

HammerheadFistpunch > AFSpecialSauce 08/27/2014 at 15:21

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The idea of a used list appeals to me, but this is new vehicles. Happy to do one with big vehicles and another with used vehicle.

Prophet of hoon > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:21

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Jeeps are nothing more than a good blank (albeit poorly and lightly made) canvas. Stock, with their itty, bitty 28" tires are good for malls, and that's about it.

A Lexus? lol, underpowered, overweight, needlessly complex.

And pray DeMuro doesn't see your Land Rover suggestion. Before he pops in, let me start... oh wait, it's a Land Rover, it has electrical problems and won't start.

HammerheadFistpunch > Prophet of hoon 08/27/2014 at 15:22

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eh, having 33's hasn't slowed down my water fording, air polluting or McDonalnds avoiding.

Ballzonya > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:25

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Interesting. I had an '06 that I sold in Jan of this year. Never had an issue off road with it. Always had plenty of power, even with a load and a couple passengers. I was just surprised to see it ranked that low, because I felt I had a very capable SUV

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > bolio 08/27/2014 at 15:26

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Sounds like you've got a great truck, but I'm guessing you meant this for the author...

I think the Raptor is great for going fast through the desert; no so sure about slow on overlanding trails.

Thanks, Kinja!

sflash868 > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:27

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What kind of trips do you like to do? Alaska, Canada, Colorado forest road type stuff? Maybe a little Trans America trial action? I rode my R1200 GS from NYC to Innuvik, NWT... Lot of that was off road.. by far the most common vehicle I saw from people doing their own version of that trip was an older Land Cruiser pickup with a camper conversion done. Again, that was Canada but still.. I saw like 40 of the things. Tough as nails I guess.

PumpedSump > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:28

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How did the Xterra get a "1" in "Load" while the Wrangler got a "2"? The Wrangler has a far lower payload rating.

Prophet of hoon > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:28

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go further

ComradeApexx > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:30

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I wish it was possible to order a 200 series GXR (V8 + manual, lockers front and rear *i think*) or even a GX stateside. LC's are great trucks, its just a shame you can't buy one here without all the unnecessary creature comforts.

55_mercury > MEESTALUBBA 08/27/2014 at 15:32

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exactly. My dad owned an 86 4Runner and it was basically a Toyota truck with a camper top stuck over some rear seats. Built more like a tractor. The current 4runners are hardly different from the Lexus models that use them for their platform.

CAR_IS_MI > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:33

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Really? wow. well I guess it seems shorter becasue there is no front or rear overhang

Tim > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:33

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I mostly concur. (sure, no one asked)

STREPITUS > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:33

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Why no Ford F150 SVT Raptor?

Loping Camshaft > HammerheadFistpunch 08/27/2014 at 15:34

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Awesome list. I agree with most of your list. I would probably switch the Frontier and Taco around, since the Nissan is built more solidly than the Taco. Minor point.

Curious to your thoughts on Scott Brady's used overland vehicles list from a few years ago? I agree with pretty much everything there. For me, it starts with the UZJ100 and ends with the 4th Gen T4R. 4Runner over Xterra mainly for the payload of the 4Runner. Larger budget allowing, old G-Wagon. I know you're invested in your 80, but the 100 seems like it solves the issues of the 80, while only losing the SFA, which for overlanding, meh.

HammerheadFistpunch > Tim 08/27/2014 at 15:38

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i did. thanks. why the mostly?